ANWB Camping is seen by potential customers as the best in the WUA research on online orientation for booking a camping in France in July 2017. In this interview, a conversation with Wouter Stokkel, interim product owner & e-commerce manager at ANWB Camping.
Wouter Stokkel, congratulations on winning this WUA research. How important do you find it to be the best in the digital arena? What role does having a winning mentality play in this?
"We see that 84% of Dutch people search and book their vacation online, so to be successful in the digital arena. Or maybe even the best. That's essential. If you don't do it there, where else? People orient themselves online and search, compare and filter on our site. After that you get to payments, deposits, travel confirmation, route descriptions: everything goes digital.
Sometimes we deal with service outside the website, then people call and we must be good at that too, of course. What we do must be right on all aspects. You can't just think from a silo or from a channel. If the offering isn't good, we immediately have a problem."
And that winner's mentality, do you see that in the team? Do they also find it important to win prizes, to be on top, to do the best for that customer?
"We're now in the phase of really creating this, we're building the team solidly. We want to build a dedicated team that really focuses. At ANWB Camping our team doesn't just consist of digital people, it's one where everyone is included. There's relationship management of the camping in there, there's data editorial in there, which ensures that everything described about a camping is actually true. But there are also payments in there, for example. A French camping, for example, doesn't have Ideal. So we have to ensure the payment is arranged! For me, it's really about the entire business operation and everyone who has a share in it."
What is your approach, what goes so well? What can other digital managers learn from your approach?
"We see that we perform quite well online across the entire funnel, the SEO visibility has gone up enormously and is still rising. We've increased 25% in conversion compared to last year. We test and develop continuously, and yes then we really put agile into practice. We act on that and we do that everywhere in the funnel. Maybe we need to quickly tackle that payment flow because that's where everyone experiences problems.
"Of course, we benefit from the ANWB brand. We have the responsibility that what we offer is good, because people really see ANWB as a quality mark. If we say in our judgment on ANWB Camping that the toilets are clean, then that's believed and so what we say must be 100% correct. That creates a certain pressure, but that's also where our strength lies."
Do you see many positive changes now that you work according to the scrum method?
"If I have to pick something from that, it's mainly that the overall goal we do it for has become clearer. We all look at the same KPIs and that's what we steer on. The opinions of different people have therefore become somewhat less important.
"I'm not that real salesperson who takes people along in the story on a soapbox, especially not when they're a bit further from the digital game. But it's incredibly necessary to make people realize that we can and must be flexible. E-commerce is a completely different 'product' than the familiar catalog or guide that's printed once and can't be changed anymore. Everything can be measured and quickly adjusted and you have to continuously convince people of that."
From a consumer perspective, there should be no (more) difference between service and sales. Are you able to break through the silos at ANWB or do you plan to do that?
"We actually have two customers: we work with campings and for consumers. We're a platform, we really sit in between. If customers want to go to the Ardèche, then we must have campings in the Ardèche. Convincing those campings to be included on our website, that has service and sales components. We have added value for that camping, because we can ensure that camping becomes known to a wider audience. We can also ensure that we get the right people to the right camping. So it's really about making the right match between what a camping can offer and what a consumer expects from a camping. That's where sales and service really go hand in hand."
So there are actually no more silos between service and sales?
"They're there, because everyone has their own mindset of course. Someone who's busy with payments but has no camping feeling at all, still sits in their own, separate silo. But I notice that we can find each other well and that goes relatively well. We're a platform, not a webshop. We don't have our own inventory, we don't have our own products."
What role does customer research and putting the customer central play in your daily work and with the teams that fall under your responsibility?
"I personally find customer effort score very important, especially for us. We focus very much on: how can you find and book a camping as quickly and easily as possible. Apparently people experience a lot of stress, they're already busy around Christmas with that vacation because they want to be sure they still have space, but it must also be good: because you only go on a longer vacation once a year.
"What I'm very curious about now and also going to work with because we don't have this completely mapped out yet for ANWB Camping is the customer lifetime value. How do you really get influence on that loyalty? How great would it be if you get a personal offer next year, for example? That would save us a lot, because we don't need to place advertisements to convince you and you don't have to search for hours anymore."
Do you regularly invite customers to the office?
"Yes, and we also very often ask members for input, we're an association. Members are involved, so they want that too. We also have a forum where they can ask questions. But that's more for inspiration. I personally have the feeling that you can also improve a lot by just looking very carefully at the site and available data."
Which KPIs do you use digitally, which buttons do you mainly turn to excel digitally?
"I use NPS a lot, but that's more for the benchmark and securing long-term goals. I really take the Customer Effort Score to see where we need to improve in the customer journey. And ultimately, commercial KPIs like margin CPA also apply to us. We've had a permanent development team in place since January 1st, that works really fantastically. It's also really great that it's now recognized that this is necessary."
What are your digital challenges for 2018?
"How do you get people on board with the agile and digital mindset? So let data insight lead to decision-making and not let the opinion of that one person behind his desk who has a good idea count? Really incredible things happen in business, where something new is launched without anyone having looked at competition, customer need and measuring or researching nothing in between. I understand it a bit too: optimizing isn't always sexy. It's more fun to launch a new product or tap into a new market. I personally want to really keep the focus on ANWB Camping's objective and see what contributes most to that. I see that as one of the challenges."
Which companies are examples for you to look at as digital frontrunners?
"I look a lot at other platforms, for example AirBnB, but also at Spotify and Uber. Spotify's app and how it communicates with everything: that's the user experience I expect as an app user. So if I wanted to make a camping app, then what Spotify does is the level to look at. You can learn so much from those kinds of apps!"
What do you think, for example, of the persuasion techniques that Booking.com uses?
"From the commercial objective that Booking.com has, I find it fully justified. At ANWB that doesn't fit at all."
Which digital innovations are you working on now and which developments are on the roadmap?
"We're working on strengthening our own added value. We're now relevant until the booking, but we can also be relevant until arrival at the camping with for example an app that still helps you on the way or for example loading a toll vignette in the app because we already know you're going to France? There are so many of these kinds of innovations you could do, provided it's relevant for the customer.
What do you think is The Next Big Thing in digital in your market?
"I believe there's no Next Big Thing, but it's about 'lots of things'. How do you ensure that from all the different possibilities there are, you choose the right ones. It's about getting the best out of all those techniques that are there, all platforms that are important throughout the entire funnel."
What is your ultimate goal and dream to achieve in business?
"I find this time of innovation, AI, Machine Learning and IoT super interesting and I actually can't stop watching TED talks or Tegenlicht episodes that question the societal impact of this technology again and again. Where it's going, I still find that difficult to really see. What I personally find very great is working with smart people who are all experts in their field. And then getting the best out of that together."
